The Dion Guagliardo Podcast
The Dion Guagliardo Podcast is a show that brings on Australian business people, leaders and innovators from a variety of industries to discuss entrepreneurship, work ethic and how they achieved success
The Dion Guagliardo Podcast
#93 Greg Taylor - Founder of Step One Underwear
In this episode, I interview Greg Taylor - Founder of Step One Underwear. Founded in 2017, Step One has become one of Australia’s most popular underwear brands, growing to become an ASX-listed company, with a market capitalisation of around $250 million and operates internationally.
Throughout the episode, Greg talks about his early days in rowing and how competing for Australia taught him the teamwork and resilience needed for business success. He also speaks about how courage and self-belief led him to continue in the tough times.
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I'm 37. I'm living on a mate's couch. I've either got to move back to Bendigo. with my parents, sleep on a couch, or I've got this idea about underwear.
so I'd had people that invested in nearly all of my businesses beforehand, came up with the idea and everyone said, nah, sorry, you know, you've had great ideas, mate, but this one won't work. And, went to China myself. and say, Hey, you know, this is what I want. What brand are you from? I don't have a brand. What's your design?
Where's your tech back? What's a tech back? How many pairs? About 5, 000. And that's the test order. Right? So no, no, that's total. And they just said, uh, yeah, that guy can help you, or this factory can help you.
And I found one that could help me. and you can imagine the wool they pull over your eyes when they know what you're doing,
Yeah. They know what they're doing.
Oh
And I've still looked back on this today and go, how on earth I did that. I don't know. but it was persistence. It was like I knew what I wanted, I knew, the problem I was trying to solve. and it was kind of like, do it or die type of thing. Like, if I couldn't get it right, then I was done.
Introduction
(Generic Introduction)
Welcome to the Dion Guagliardo Podcast, where I interview business people who run or have sold businesses worth a few million dollars all the way through to billions of dollars. While most of my time is spent to managing investment portfolios for people after they've had a successful exit. I've always been fascinated by the entire process and hearing the insights that successful entrepreneurs and business people have learned along their.
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(Episode Introduction)
In this episode, I interview Greg Taylor, founder of Step One Underwear. Founded in 2017, Step One has become one of Australia's most popular underwear brands, growing to become an ASX listed company, has a market capitalization of around 250 million, and operates internationally. Throughout the episode, Greg talks about his early days in rowing and how competing for Australia taught him teamwork and resilience that was needed for business success.
He also speaks about how courage and self belief led him to continue in the tough times. If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave a five star review and share with your family and friends.
Greg Taylor Introduction and How Rowing Taught Him Lessons of Business
Greg, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us.
Yeah, thanks, Dan. Really appreciate it. And congrats on the esteemed list of people you've had on your show, saw some, some really impressive names and some impressive people who have made some businesses that have gone on, started and mentioned Lee Jasper. I saw in there.
he started, Construction software business, listed it got a great exit for his shareholders and certainly one of the guys I look up to and think, you know, he's done an amazing job. So yeah, congrats on the list of people you've had on.
Thanks, man. Appreciate that. And, uh, very happy to have you join that, that list.
So, forward to it. Greg, tell us a little bit about your, So early days as an entrepreneur, where did it all start? And that's up to you where you want to start.
Yeah. Like I was, I grew up in Adelaide in the South of Adelaide and, when I was about 16. I got sent a letter from the South Australian Sports Institute saying because they had this talent ID program and they said, and they go and measure your height, your weight, your strength, your fitness, your measurements and all this kind of stuff.
And there were these three letters saying, think you're good for weightlifting, for
baseball and rowing. And I looked at these things and I was 16. I was going to be playing cricket for Australia and all this kind of stuff. And so I threw them in the bin. Mum came home and saw this sassy South Australian Sports Industry logo in the bin.
She says, what's that? I said, Oh, it's some stupid thing about rowing or something like this. And she pulls it out of the bin. She looks at it and reads and goes, Like you, you should maybe just go and do the trial. Like, just see what happens. I was like, oh, mom, I'm going to be playing for create for Australia and da da da da.
And, so she said, look, just try it. So I went and tried it and they, and cause technique's quite hard in rowing. They put you on one of those bikes that you, feed an arm and they measure like your one minute power, your 10 second power. And I did it. And the guy, the rowing coach of the talent ID coach.
Looked at it and he's like looked at as in like it was broken or something and I said, Oh, did, did I do it wrong or something he goes, no, I'm just, I've never seen those numbers before. and so he's like, you've been sort of blowing the power off the charts. and he said, all right, we'll give another get this letter saying congrats.
You've got an eight week scholarship for rowing at the sports Institute. I was like, Oh, here we go. So, you know, it's 4 30, and I lived an hour away from the rowing course. So it's like 4 30 get up, you know, 5 30 there, six o'clock on the water. this was in year 10. and then like what people don't realize rowing is so difficult, like to, if you've got someone in a single skull, they'd fall out within two seconds.
It would take someone probably six months to take one single stroke without falling out.
Oh, wow.
it is. and so it looks simple and everyone, when they watch the Olympics, they go, why aren't they trying harder? Like they're only like, you know, two meters, two meters behind, why are they not, you know, they're only two minutes behind.
why aren't they just try faster? You know, why don't they just grow harder? It's like, it doesn't work. Like they are at max.
the bigger miracle is that anyone who with teenage sons will understand is getting, 15 year old boy or 16 year old boy up at, before about, nine o'clock in the morning. That in itself is a, is a pretty big deal.
yeah, it was a big deal, but my parents supported me and the reason I bring this up is that I then end up like getting through this period and I did this first rowing, two kilometers on the rowing machine test. And I still remember my time, it was 7. 19 and it was like one of the quickest times someone knew had done it.
Then I learned some technique and then the last week of the eight weeks I did a 6k test and I did 623 which is like national junior times so they're like you could make the olympics and I was like olympics okay like you know that's interesting so And then rowing is this thing and I don't get it.
It sucks you in and you become like, uh, if I look back on it, it's like you train 13, 14 times a week, you're up at four 30, you don't get paid. We had to raise money to go to nationals, all these sorts of things, but it teaches you discipline, it teaches you teamwork. and then, so I was in 10 and 11 at a school and then year 12, I got offered a scholarship, to go to one of the rowing schools in Adelaide, Prince Alfred college.
to join their, their right. And that comes second for lighting of the last six or seven years. I'd won it. So they'd come second in head of the river and they were like, okay, 1999, yeah, we'll recruit. We, you know, here's a kid in, in sassy, he's in a single scale. Let's bring him to PAC for a year. So I remember pulling into his car park and I had an old, 1984 KB laser without a starter motor.
And so I had to park it on a hill to get the car park was flat. And I drove into this school. It's one of the most prestigious schools in Adelaide. And I drove in and my parents paid half of the scholarship. So they put up a lot of money to do it. And then some of the old boys funded, boys only school.
So they funded it. and I was driving in those Mercedes and Beamers with P plates on there. And I was like. What am I doing here? And anyway, so fit it in, I was, it was probably the bit, one of the best decisions I did, because like you go to a new school and you 12, you don't know anyone, you don't want to be the idiot that people don't know yet.
So I ended up, if I'd say where I was, I probably would've got 60 out of a hundred. I think I've got like 85 or something like that. So, you
know, it made me study, but like it then got me, like I lost 20 kilos. it became, and we lost every race that year. In growing in the in the school we got us and then one hair the river by about 10 seconds and we still hold the record today.
For the course record. So 5 54, so 25 years later. but we had such a good boat then that, couple of us. it was really good. Four in that boat. We won the junior Nationals, the junior four, the schoolboy four. We went on to, to go to try for the junior wells and we missed it by 0.07 of a second to a
Oh wow.
WA who then went on to win the World Junior Worlds by about eight seconds.
So it's still one of those things to the day I'm like, Oh, that
just burns.
just burns. Right. And, but then, um, so after school I went on to, get a full scholarship at the, South Australian sports Institute and, made my first national team. and in 20, 2001, and we got selected, went to Canberra and I was in the, in the, you get a room at the Institute.
And then just a couple of days before you leave, you get your uniform. And I remember I got a knock on the door. Here's your bag. And it's all, there's so much, And I remember taking my clothes off, see, finding the rowing suit, pulling it on in front of the mirror and saying, I was like, I'm wearing the Australian uniform, the Australian suit.
and then when you, when you race, you'd normally hear like, yeah, they call out the start line and they say Adelaide rowing club, Sydney rowing club at the start of the race. Then you get to the national level and they'll be like, Victoria, South Australia. Then I go attention go, then you go overseas and you hear Germany, Italy, Australia.
And that was, and that was in Italy in 2001. And I just remember at the start line thinking, Oh my God, I'm like here. So I made three national teams. so I was in the men's eight, the men's eight, the men's, four. And the discipline, the culture, the teamwork that rowing teaches you is second to none.
So what would I be here today without that? No. in terms of what it teaches you. but also it was like you, you, we had to raise money to go to the worlds.
Yeah. Okay.
I started teaching me is like, okay. And, and so you didn't get paid to do it. You were training 12, 13, 14 times a week.
You'd spend January and February in falls Creek at altitude. So you had to have money to pay, to live, to, for petrol, for things like that. So you, your life would look like up at four 30 on the water at six o'clock. Then it'd be to school in the city or to uni on the other side of the city, then back to halfway to the city for, you pretty much halfway back to rowing course for, for Jim, then an hour and a half home in traffic.
And then you'd have to study. You'd have to, you know, you, you'd eat a whole, whole, whole box of wheat because I remember at some point, you basically eat half a bowl when you got home and when it was half empty, you just pour the milk straight into the wheat pigs. Cause you were, you know, you were taking sort of, you know, 10, 000 calories a day because
Yeah. Wow.
know, but, but it taught you the, the things that rowing teaches you is, you, you can't learn it.
You can't be taught it. and you've either got it or you don't.
Yeah. Okay.
And it teaches you the importance of teamwork and then applying that to business. you know, that I'm one of the best bits of advice I ever got. and every rowing coach will say this, and it's the hardest thing to do is don't look at the boat because you want to see where your competitors are.
But what the rationale is, if you look at their boat, it does two things. One, it makes your boat go slower, because you're not focusing on your boat. And two, it makes their boat go faster.
Yeah.
And so that same principle applies in business. It implies in life. If you, say, focus on what you're doing, and, be aware of people around you, but don't look at them.
because you're looking at them, you're not thinking about what you're doing and therefore if you're spending time in it, you know, obviously with competition, you need to be aware of it, but I think that there's a bigger principle there is stay in your boat, focus in your boat. And at the end of the day, I've got to get from the start line to the finish line as quick as possible.
looking out of the boat doesn't do that. It actually makes it go slower, makes them go faster. So that was certainly one of the things that I took out of rowing. And then I got to 24 Missy Athens Olympics by enough boats to be like, okay, I wasn't, going to man wasn't a shoe in for the, for the next Olympian, Beijing.
The Start of Greg Taylor's Business Career with a Reverse Car Auction
But I also didn't want to be 28 and finish rowing and then start a business career or, you know, be behind. So in a way it was a bit of a blessing that I thought at that point, okay, now's enough's enough now. then I was like, what am I going to do? So I studied commerce and accounting at Flinders University.
And I was like, I'm not an accountant. It was probably my most hated subject.
Yeah.
And, and then I came up with an idea, bought a car and the internet. So this was 05 and I came up with this idea of, instead of having to go, like you go to all these dealers and get a price. So I started a website called betterdeal.
com. au. And what it was, was a reverse auction site for new cars. So it doesn't matter where you, whether you buy the car from dealer A, B, C or D, a new car is a new car. And so what basically you work like eBay, but in reverse. So you say, I want to hold in Commodore in black with these options, and this is the retail price.
Then the buyer will put down 50 bucks to show they're serious. And then dealers would beat against each other.
Yeah. So you're gonna get the best price,
Yeah. but this was 2005, so it was like pretty groundbreaking in terms of like, there was like Facebook wasn't I think that wasn't
around iPhone didn't start till I wait. So, I mean, it'd be great business now.
in terms of that, but I ended up getting sued by these car companies because the dealers were complaining that they were losing sales. So they buy what's called a prime market area and someone in Sydney, say like they've got the Northern Beaches lot
They got territories,
territories that was that they do all the work to show someone the car and they go on there and then buy it from Penrith or from Cronulla or whatever.
So the car companies just then thought, well, we'll just litigate you till you got no money. and yeah, unfortunately, that was sort of one of the things that, distracts you and all those sorts of things, but, you know, it's starting that now. And I don't know if the idea is around, I think I've seen it overseas, but, you know, one of those things that was before it's time, you know, an internet putting, just putting your credit card into a website.
Yeah. It was a different ball game, right?
How Greg Taylor Knew the Internet Would be a Game Changer
Yeah, absolutely. Different ballgame. So, but I learned about tech, learned about the intent and I was always very interested in it. And I remember in year 10, I heard about the internet and this was 98, 97 actually. And I was like, this is going to be so important because I could see the vision of like, you know, imagining, you know, before the internet saying you won't have to send a letter, like I had a pen pal younger in
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
(clip)
Imagine saying someone you won't send a letter, you'll open up a device, type on it, and it will magically fly through the air and be in their inbox in the other side of the world in two seconds. I'll be like, no, it's impossible. So I could see the power of it. And so I remember what I did is that I was like, I needed a new touch typing was important.
So. During recess and lunch, I'd sneak into the computer room and teach myself to touch type.
Yeah. Okay.
So one of the things that, if I look back, like so glad I did it. cause I can use that now in the amount of time you spend on a computer. Having foresight back then to know about it.
I was obsessed with it. I could just see the vision of what it would do. so yeah, and that was, you know, that sort of Scott got me into my first business, ran that for three years and then ran up to seven different businesses from ads on takeaway coffee cups to designing exhibition stands. I then came up with the first one of the, I think it was like the second or third app in the Australian store.
It was an app called eCoffeeCard. and I always think about a business is find a solution. If there's a problem, there's a solution for it, or there's an opportunity. And I was at a cafe and you know, those buy 10 get one free cards. And I was looking for my card and another guy lost his card. And I thought, imagine if you could like build an app that you could keep track of it.
So QR codes. knew about those, but this was in 2008. I thought, okay, what if I build this app where you just scan the code and it will keep record of it. I don't know how I'm going to make money out of it. But if I get eyeballs, is that, period where eyeballs meant Google would buy you for a billion dollars?
and so the business like, so it's built the app and, it was like groundbreaking. It was, I think it was like maybe the first five apps in the Australian app store.
Very new at the time. like BlackBerry was the first app and we did iPhone, but BlackBerry was second. and so, yeah, so we built that and we got to sort of maybe a thousand cafes and, but I didn't charge him for it.
I was like, okay, I'll make money later. It was
that sort of model. Um, and we had like 300, 000 users and everyone used it and I just didn't know, I couldn't work out how to make money. from it. And then there was a, another business, another really, really interesting guy I should talk to, Adam Theobald, started a business, and he's done really well.
And so he had a business, which was pre order your coffee. But he couldn't get the cafes on board or the users. So he came to me and said, I'll buy a business and I was running out of cash, I was going to hit the wall. And then we ended up, you know, agreeing the figure. And then afterwards we had a beer and he said, mate, why'd you sell it so cheap?
Cause you're the only one that offered to pay anything for it. And we both have a beer and we still laugh about it today. but yeah, then, then that led me onto, I knew this app thing was going to, going to move. so then I left my credit card behind the bar at a pub once. And I thought that's a problem.
So this idea of a bar tab app. So I went and, Raise some money in this. This is probably one of the bigger business I had, raise money. And what we did is we integrated our technology into the point of sale system. So essentially you could open the app, but it'd say you're at this pub. I want to open a tab, your credit cards connected and your photo and things would appear on the pause.
So you just go up and show your tab number, check out, pay, split the bill. Really, really good idea. Just. Getting people to download an app, there was no connect with Google, Apple pay. So there was a big lot of friction to get people on. But there was a three market process there. So you had to get the pause systems on first.
Those integrations took a year.
right.
had to get the pubs on board that takes process. Then you got to get the customers. So whilst it built a moat around the business, it also made it very hard. So I thought number one and two would be the most difficult, but the hardest one was getting the users. Um, and then, yeah, it had, had investors and things like that, but just, again, I think too early for its time then pay wave came in
Yep.
that sort of, you know, didn't help.
The Genesis of Step One Underwear
(clip)
So we pivoted and what have you. And yeah, and then that was the seventh business I'd run. And so I sort of came out of that and I was like, okay, I'm 37. I'm living on a mate's couch. I've, uh, I've I've either got to move back to Bendigo. with my parents, sleep on a couch, or I've got this idea about underwear.
And so I'd had people that invested in nearly all of my businesses beforehand, came up with the idea and everyone said, nah, sorry, you know, you've had great ideas, mate, but this one won't work. And, uh, yeah, so I, I went to China myself. We've had 20 weight, 20 pairs on this waistband and this, and I went to the Canton fair and it is massive.
Think about. and entertainment or the conference centers multiply that by four. And that's just the underwear hall.
Yeah, right.
And so I'd go up to one of the factories or exhibiting there and say, Hey, you know, this is what I want. What brand are you from? I don't have a brand. What's your design?
Where's your tech back? What's a tech back? How many pairs? About 5, 000. And that's the test order. Right? So no, no, that's total. I want 5, 000. I want two styles. I want four pairs, four sizes and seven colors. So you want 13 pairs of XL white. Yep. And they just said, uh, yeah, that guy can help you, or this factory can help you.
And I found one that could help me. And so flew to the twin, went to the factory and developed it with them. I knew nothing about textiles. So the biggest baptism of fire, and you can imagine the wool that can they pull over your eyes when they know what you're doing, when they know
you
Yeah. They know what they're doing.
Oh
yeah. And I've still looked back on this today and go, how on earth I did that. I don't know. Like, but it was persistence. It was like I knew what I wanted, I knew, that the problem I was trying to solve. and it was kind of like, sort of, do it or die type of thing. Like, you know, if it didn't, if I couldn't get it right, then I was done.
How Greg Taylor Felt Starting his 8th Business after the Previous 7
So I'm really interested and we'll go into step one and the, the whole, growth of that business, which has ultimately become very successful with hundreds of millions of dollars in his listener stock exchange. but let's go back a step, go to year 37. Like you said, you've had seven previous businesses.
That haven't turned out probably how you wanted them to turn out. How do you feel when you're going into the next one? Like, how do you get yourself up, ready to go? and what's your mindset at that point? Because now it's easy to look back from the outside looking in even, as a, as somebody saying, Wow, this guy's done exceptionally well.
At that point, do you have, any doubts? Or are you, is it, you aren't wavering in that? Or how are you feeling at that point?
Yeah. Like, yeah. I knew at, at the time I'd met, been dating my, my now wife for two or three years. She wanted to move in and I was like, pretending to be this startup guy and I was on a wage and I knew that you're running out of money. And so I said, look, if we're going to move in, I can't pay the rent. so that's fine. She's got a great business called the fable. And so she was doing really well out of her econ and she said, that's okay. I'll, you know, I'll back you. But at that point, I'm like, I've learned so much in the last. 18 years in different businesses. It's like, I could smell the finish line.
yes, okay.
You've made so many mistakes. and I knew that what I learned through rowing through other things that if you knock on the door enough or you knock on enough doors,
someone will open it. And I had the belief that I'd made so many mistakes, which I call learnings, or I
said, I've had many learnings of how to start at things that like trip up people early on cashflow.
Yeah.
And
I'd had, because you'd have to look at so many areas of the business, I'd had experience across marketing, across operations, across Forex, across all these other bits and pieces that you could put it all together. and so like, you know, I was doing everything from going to China to order the factory, to dealing with making ads on my, on my iPhone.
Learning Premiere, Photoshop, because I couldn't pay to have someone do it. and making all the ads myself, dealing with customer service, ordering this, our bedroom was full of boxes. And then when I launched it, made this video, had 5, 000 pairs sold out nearly in a week, had a million views or something.
And I was like, and I remember like saying to Soph, okay. We've got to pack these, we're going to, we're going to move these things. All
right.
Get them out. And then you're dealing with customer service. And I remember when we started, I was like, I didn't, didn't put the video live, had the website live.
And I was like, I remember thinking, all I need is one customer that isn't family or friends.
Ember one came through and I was like, that's a random, I think that's random. I emailed them, said, Oh, how'd you hear about us? I said, I saw a video on Facebook. I was like, wow. And like the feeling I got when I was like.
And then I saw another one and another one and Shopify, I don't know if you know this, but they, must've studied pokies or something, but when you get a sound and any, anyone who started a business will know exactly what I'm talking about. It makes a cash register sound ka ching.
And when you'd hear this sound come through in the beginning, you would, I remember jumping around the house, like you'd hear it.
And cause Soph had a business. She'd have it as well. And we'd be like, who's, who's that? And, and then you'd start hearing them more often and the dopamine hit you get just encouraged you so much more. So, very smart from Shopify to do it,
but those little things. And it's like, cause you don't see those in other businesses where, you know, the, the, say the clip one, yeah, I'm working on getting the, you might get a signed contract back for a pause integration, but that means another year of work and costs and this, whereas.
A kaching meant cash in the bank,
knocked out the door and it was scalable. So, you sort of, you know, look at those things and go like, I always truly had belief that I could make it. I believed in myself, I could make it. And I knew I'd learned that much that it was a shame to not give it another go.
and obviously I had the support of Sophie to do it, which makes a massive difference as well.
and, the support of my parents through my rowing career. support of friends. but you know, as I said, like when I, when I started a step one business, like couldn't couldn't raise a dollar. No one was interested in it. So I think at one point I was like offering people like 30 percent for 30 grand.
Um, yeah, (Clip: Back yourself) and yeah, they were like, no, I really appreciate it, but not, I don't think good luck. yeah. And so, yeah, so I had to manage his cashflow and that was probably the hardest thing about step one was is like the terms with factory. I place the order 30 percent deposit
and 70 percent before it leaves the factory.
Then you got 30 days on the water. So it's sort of 120 days. You got to fund it. And so I was had stock and I was out of stock for four months, then you get it, then that would sell in a week, then you place that order. And I was like, I got to a point where I was like, okay, I know I'm going to sell this. Am I going to sell this?
Am I going to back myself to place this order? So you then start placing orders ahead of where you think
you are to, to reduce it. But you've got to have that belief. All right. And that's not everyone has that. Some people will be really cautious and go, okay, I'll wait till the money's in the bank, then I'll order.
But it would have taken me three times as long if you'd had that approach. So you've got to back yourself, believe in something and, and you've got to, you've got to take some risks. Like, you know, you've got to, it's not easy. Like everyone looks at and goes, oh, you've done this, but the stress of cashflow and anyone who has a business will understand that.
but you know, when you started talking, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollar orders. And you're like, okay, this is starting to get big here. and, and that was eventually the reason why we went down the IPO route. It was either get some, private funding, private equity, or, Michael Reddy, who's one of the directors and has helped me for 20 years, and never charged a lawyer.
And he's been, I wouldn't be here without Mike. You know, he's one of the guys that got me out of situations, advise me on things. truly, oh, you know, everything, you know, not everything. Oh, well, I wouldn't say everything, but you know, I very highly doubt I would be where I am without, without Michael and certainly without Soph and without the help of my, my support and my parents early on.
but you've still, you can have all that support, but unless you believe in yourself,
it won't make a difference. (end of clip)
The Moment Greg Taylor Realised Step One Was Going to Be a Success
(up to here) did you look what this business was doing, different to the other ones? That you realised, yeah, this is going to work In a bigger way than the ones in the past. At what point did that realization happen?
when I made a profit,
Yep.
well, because I had to make a profit, I
didn't have a choice. There was no funding and, and you'd buy the product and then you'd sell the product and you'd buy it for, I don't know, three bucks. And you'd sell it for 20 to take out your costs. And I was like, okay, we've actually made, I've made profit here.
And the other businesses were focused on eyeballs and those sorts of things. so I think like for me, that was a bit, it was unique, but, That was, you know, e-commerce wasn't big, you know, back in 18, 17, 18. It was very new. yeah, I think like, you know, seeing that, okay, I can actually make some profit here this is profitable business and scalable.
and then I started seeing the repeat customer rate and the reviews and people like, these are life changing. and if I had a dollar for every time someone had emailed or messaged me or pulled their underwear, stopped me in the street and pulled their underwear up and said, Greg, Greg, these are amazing. Yeah. Thank you. I've, I've, you know, been able to walk. I've lost 20 kilos and
Yeah, right.
it's so cool to not only do, grow a business that's profitable, but to do create a product that changes people's lives is really cool as well.
Step One's Famous Ads That Got Them to Where They Are Today
Talk us through some of your ads. I've seen a few of them and, and I probably haven't seen all of them but I've seen a few of them and they're, they're pretty funny and, and, and really interesting.
Yeah.
Talk us through the early days of that and, and your thought process around doing that. Okay.
Keep it simple. It was, literally, I remember filming them against a white wall in my apartment because I couldn't afford a studio. And so that was where we did it. And it was like, as simple as, do you suffer from sweat chafing right up? And these panels will fix it. This fabric weeks away sweat.
And, and I was just such a simple thing, but, and I was in the ads cause I couldn't afford anyone. And not a six pack guy, not even 1 percent of the population of six pack guys. I thought like, we're not those people, like we think we are, but what I didn't realize, my theory was like. Like we are who we are.
All right. And, guys have chafing problems. Guys have sweating problem. Everyone, it turns out everyone does that
meant, there wasn't a product on the market that did it, but I thought, let's be real here. Let's, let's, you know, talk about, their underwear was sexy models with six packs and the traditional model of it, I thought.
How do I get cut through? If I do the same thing, there's no cut through. And if you say you've got here are the problems and here are the solutions. and you could film it on an iPhone. and, and then I remember the day that I could afford a color roller, so background.
yeah. Right. Yeah,
So
So we,
we got one and it was a white one, so it upped the production value massively instead of a white plastered wall.
and we hired the lights because we couldn't afford to buy them. And then we, when we could afford a paper roller, I was like, wow, this is cool. And it was like 200 bucks. And then I realized you get different colors. And then, it was like 150 bucks to get a pink one. And we went in there, I saw these colors and I'll get a blue one.
That's, men's product blue. He said, no, no, that pink one stands out. And so pink one, then ran some more ads. And then I was like, okay, let's get someone else in. And I looked on star now. And I was scrolling through and I saw this, this Samoan guy, Lawrence, who you might've seen in the ads, the Kiwi, Kiwi Samoan I looked at him and experienced none ads, none. And I looked at him, I was like, there's something about him. So message him and said, I'd love to do an ad with you, dah, dah, dah. So, think we paid him 50 bucks or something for it. You know, it was crazy. Yeah, but that's, that was what it was
on. And most people come into the studio and, and everyone comes in, it comes in super hot, Oh, I miss, I'm mad and confident. And, and then the lights go on and they're like deers in the headlight.
Lawrence walks in and he's really shy. He's really quiet. Lights go on and he comes alive.
really
And then, we, we were thinking about the end of the ad and we're like, you know, just say something like, you know, step one, try them step one, this, and he just goes, step one, get some. And I was like, that is genius. And I didn't think I, sorry, I thought it was great. I didn't think it was genius. Then we ran and then the kind of videos we'd get of people doing the get some.
Right.
And there's a story where, my niece was in year 10, maybe two years later. And she told me this story where, whenever the teacher, so all the boys wanted to wear them, and had them and, and my sister told me the story where she said, Oh yeah, in, in Emma's class, they, uh, anytime the teacher says, okay, so step one to do something, then all the boys would go get some
Yeah. Right.
and I was laughing and I was like, Yeah.
And so it got banned in the school teacher, like, can you stop doing it? And when I said, oh, so, they obviously know Emma's uncle owns it. And she goes, no, she's so embarrassed that they don't know. And I was like, hang on. So you tell me there's a school in the North of Adelaide that was like year year 10 kids, boys were saying, get some every time the teacher says step one, and they don't know.
They don't know the link.
The link. And he's like, yes. And I was like, okay, we're onto something here.
is happening elsewhere,
yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not just that place.
Right. so you start to see these, these green shoots where it's like, you know, I had to think about this and think, okay, I've got no money, no budget or very little budget. I've got to be creative.
I've got to cut through, but I also have to appeal to people in terms of a normal, you know, what's normal to them or, you know, sorry, what's not normal. In terms of like, you actually don't look like this. You look like this and I'm going to show you that this is what most, this is what a real guy looks like.
Well, it's about being real, right? I mean, people use the words like authentic and all that, but I think it's just being real. That's what cuts through. You talk about cut through. That's being real cuts through. In this day and age,
And the amount of people, as I say, I love your ads. They're so authentic. They're so genuine. then we tried using someone else in the ads and I've never received so much hate
Not
We Lawrence bring back Lawrence, bring back Lawrence.
So he
and so, yeah, he's literally, and he gets stopped in the street and gets photos, gets asked to do like cameos, get some like, and so, one of the really cool things was like, I didn't realize that like he then when I started seeing on Toyota ads on all these other ads and it started his career and he's now doing some acting and movies.
And, and he said to me, mate, like without that ad, wouldn't be here. So I was like, that's so cool to hear that. You know, it's been a win win and, even today, like, you know, we, we, you know, keep in touch and wherever there's, whenever we need each other, we help each other.
And, you know, one of the, one of those guys that, he helped me, I helped him and, you know, we're both successful out of it.
How Greg Keeps the Company Authentic as the Brand Grows
How do you keep things real with the business as you get scale and it goes to different levels? and maybe that's an easy question to answer, I don't know, but is it challenging in some way as the business gets bigger?
Yeah. I think like principles I stick by is, is, and, and something, I don't know where I heard it from, but it's a, if you ask anyone, what, what are the three things Greg sticks by is treat others how you want to be treated. Respect is not given. So if I want respect from someone, I need to treat them with respect.
and if they want respect, then they need to treat me with respect. And in the office, you know, I've banned the word boss. If you call me boss, it's gone. Like it's a flat structure and input from everyone. you know, we're, we're a team of 15, you know, 10 people overseas. I always think, and there's a book I read and I got one of my investors early on.
He didn't, he was one of the guys that said no, actually. So I'm going to call him out. uh, very, very smart guy built an amazing business. One of the nicest guys you'll meet, incredibly smart. And he wrote a book. I think it's like, be the dumbest person at the table, the dumbest guy at the
table.
But (clip) David, David Shane, he's got an amazing story, amazing background. He does so much work within the community in terms of helping entrepreneurs, but surround yourself, the moral of the story is surround yourself with people that are better than you. And people that are smarter than you, because if you're the smartest one there, then you're dragging, you want to be dragged. And I think some people get, make the mistake of thinking, Oh, this person's too going to be smarter than me, or they're going to make me look silly.
Like I look at it and go, is this person going to make me silly, make me look silly, is it, am I going to learn from this person?
If I go, I'm not going to learn something from them, then I won't hire them. Whereas we go, wow, this person knows more than me in this. that's the first thing I look for is this person going to, and a rising tide lifts all, all boats.
And if you put someone in the office that isn't a 10 out of 10 and doesn't participate, it drags everyone else down. So we have a really, not strict, but like very. Specific policy around who, who we, who we bring in for a role. they, they come in as a, as a 10 and they go to a 20. and we always say to people, I prefer you to make the mistake and try then not make the mistake and not try.
And so empowering people to do that, and you're never going to be perfect. But I think having that mentality where people go, yeah, I can try this. but it'll be, and one of the things that, I got given some advice on again, which was really, really cool and I don't know, I haven't seen it much, but, someone said, Greg, you need to become a yes or no CEO.
Right.
(clip)
I said, what do you mean? And he goes, tell everyone. That when they come to you with something, there's only two answers. Yes. No.
Okay.
And so I sent an email to everyone saying yes or no CEO. So I said, if you come to me with something, it might be an ad, it might be this, it might be that the decision, a proposal, the partnership I'm either going to say yes or no.
so what it does then is it makes people think what info. Do I have to be in there for Greg to have enough info to make a decision? And so they then will bring something to you and be like, no, and I don't tell them why
oh, that was my next question was, do you qualify it? Do you give them something as to why, or you let them work it out?
I let them work it out.
Right. Yeah. now they've started, you know, everyone starts thinking, okay, why did he say yes? Or they now think, what would make Greg say no?
Yeah.
So I think about like return on investment, does it align with our brand? And it could be as simple as an ad. You know, does the ad show the benefits?
Does it show here's a problem solution and call to action? It could be things like that. so it empowers people to not only just be, be lazy, I think, and go, Oh, I'll just send it and get feedback. I literally just write no.
Yeah, okay. I think that's really, yeah, that's really interesting. does that sometimes when it's a no, let's say there's degrees of no, right? something might be a no, that's a terrible idea, for whatever reason, and we're never gonna do it, and there's a no, but there's really a couple of tweaks around the edges.
how do you navigate that process? Or is it really just about coaching and letting them work it out rather than getting too involved in the depth of the know, if that makes sense?
Yeah. Well, one of the things is always, you know, as part of it, he's like, how's this going to benefit the business? What's the business case. And if you can show me something, so it might be an ad and it might be, okay, have you included these things? It might be a proposal that we want to sponsor this team and this is it.
And, then in context, obviously over time they've, you know, heard this, but be like, okay, something simple as like, if they want to spend, you know, the proper, the sponsorship will cost this, how many pairs do we have to sell to get that back?
Yeah, right.
Okay. And now we're like, I've got to sell this many pairs, therefore, and the audience is this big.
Therefore, we've got to have a conversion rate of 25 percent when we do 5%, then they're going to go, okay, they were, so they, they will learn to go, okay, what's the business case. So they're sort of thinking at, okay. Cause that as a CEO or a leader or anyone, you've got to make that decision.
on
Is this going to benefit the business in what way and how do I justify this?
How Greg Handled Fundraising and IPO (clip: The benefit of xyz)
I love the concept. I think it's awesome. from an investment perspective, you talked about how in the early days of step one, it was very hard to get investment. What was this fundraising process like with that business? How did you go down that path? Or was it, funded through cashflow until you IPO'd?
and the other part of the question is, did you raise money from other people in those other seven invest, uh, those other seven businesses early on? And what did you take away from that, that made you more or less inclined to raise money from VC or PE with the other business rather than when
(up to here)
Yeah, like I dealt with some P. E. in a couple of different businesses, and moms, mom and dad and family are always the best investors. but that's also the worst because there's no worse feeling than letting people down is a bad feeling. There is no worse feeling than losing people money. That is a horrible feeling.
And that's something you take as a public company CEO or a public, you know, when you go public, you can actually see people have lost their money.
And people know the risk, but the concept of, you know, not turning up to a dinner or can't do something to help something, but when you lose money, people's money, it hurts.
And it's something that, you know, I think, you know, I'm now that people are trusting me as custodian of their money, I've got a job to do to make that, person money. They've entrusted me with that. I need to make sure I'm repaying that.
by doing
Everything I can I can sleep at night saying I've done everything I possibly can to make this business work.
That's the way I approach it. I think you know in terms of learning from. Early investors is, it's whilst it's easy to get family and friends money, it, it hurts when it doesn't go the right way. and then with PE, there's obviously a lot of strings attached to it and, can be, uh, you've heard some great stories about PE.
You've heard some really negative stories about PE.
but they're also entrusted to look after people's money. So, yeah, and, and when we looked at, do we do an IPO or PE was kind of like, well, eventually you're probably going to get to an IPO because PE will say, once you get to this point and that point,
That's their exit, right?
Yeah.
And, and also like, you know, it was a way to, raise money, but it's also a consumer product. So like, I've got one and a half million customers. So, you know, it's always of the view, you know, it belongs on the market because people, our customers love it. you know, there's support through, if you love a product and that's my investment thesis, if it changes your changes, the habit or changes.
behavior, then that's something to invest in. and there's a good example of my father in law. he runs a, one of the smartest guys I know. He runs a, uh, a fund out of New Zealand, called Aspiring Asset Management. And he's one of my mentors that I look up to and we'll call him for advice.
And, he's always just 10 steps ahead of me. And it, it, it annoys me cause I can't catch him. Because he keeps learning, but, you know, I can call him and because he's on the fun side, I can get his view on things, um, and, you know, so from, from that point, you know, his advice very early on was really useful in terms of, you know, well, you're going to get in this path and here's your options, but this is what it will look like from a public side and not a lot of people get that.
In terms of, the shock you get when all of a sudden people have essentially got a log into your bank account.
Yeah.
So, you know, then that starts making you think about, okay, like, everyone sees you differently. Everyone starts tr not everyone, but a lot of people, you get a lot of new friends, you get a lot of new people that,
Oh, hi.
oh, hi, hey, hey Greg.
I'm, I'm from this bank and we look after private, you know, we'd love to have a coffee with you. And, and it's like, hang on. You weren't there. When I was there and particular ones that you've knocked on the door beforehand. and that was one thing that I'd say, Mike was really good at, in terms of, and Mike's advice was amazing.
He said to me, he's a director, he's second largest shareholder, and, uh, you know, I gave him some, as a thank you, I gave him some shares just before the IPO. So for your help. And, you know, it was 6 percent of the company or something like that.
So, Yeah.
he did quite well out of it, but, uh, you know, he'd put 20 years of belief in me, which was amazing.
but yeah, out of, I think, the process going through it and, you know, the, the advice Mike said to me was for one year, don't give anyone any money. Cause the one, cause everyone says, what are you going to buy?
Oh, really?
question is when the, you know, you're doing, what are you going to buy?
And my answer was always the same, was I wanted to buy my parents their house, pay their house off.
Yeah. Yeah.
and so I waited a year and, and did that, and, you know, you know, did the same for my sister. and then I wanted to buy a house. So, the amount of people that ask for money on a daily basis, because they know you've got it and you can't hide it.
And someone says, can I borrow a thousand bucks and they know you've taken X amount in dividends X amount in sell down and it becomes an issue now where you've been. And again, Mike, any of these things you just say, well, I don't make these decisions.
Send them to Mike, and Mike will make the decision.
So I'm not involved in it.
yeah, yeah,
And so, you know, that, that's certainly one of the things being public is you've got to manage, manage expectations and, and also just like be thinking, you're always going to be thinking like, what are people asking me this question for? Why are they looking me in the eye?
Yeah. We're always trying to, you know, like find,
an angle.
Absolutely. And everyone has an agenda, identifying that, but yeah, having great people around you and, and, you know, I Sophie, my wife, I couldn't have asked for a better wife, more supporting, she's the smartest, most lovely person I've ever met and to
Wonderful, Wonderful, podcast guest as well. She was on the podcast as
yeah, yeah. I mean, uh, she, she helps out in this business. She runs her own business, mother of two. and she, she, she gets it like we signed up for the same thing when we said we're going public and that means late nights at work, early starts and things like that. But one of the things that I really try to do is I've said, right.
And again, this is some advice I got, was like, make sure you carve out time for your life. And so things being like, if I don't start till 10. So I'll go to the gym, then I'll have, I'll take Hugo and Ivy swimming. So I've got time with them, and that's time because UK start opens at 6pm.
So I'm up late most nights. but if I don't get to see Hugo and the kids in the morning, then I leave at five. So I can then go home and spend time with the kids. and that's family time. and then I'm back online at seven. So having that balance between the two is really important. And, and yeah, you've got, have you got children
Ah, yeah, I've got four kids, mate.
But they're all adults now. They're all, they're all adults. They're
Yeah. But like,
I get it.
wow. Okay. So I've got two under two.
Um, but, but yes, but you know, the speed at which they grow up, you, you, yeah, I always say, and, and some, and one of the things I'm really into is, watches, I love watches. And someone said, why do you love watches? And I said, because, and everyone says, you know, what's valuable people don't appreciate what's valuable in life.
And I said, like the single most precious commodity you have is time.
You can't get it back, you can't buy it, you can't beg it, you can't steal it. So why I like watches is every time I look at my watch, I think, am I using my time to the best of my ability or for the best purpose? and so, the concept of a watch that's been made by hand and it's a mechanical thing that can stay within, the, the amazement of horology I think is, is fascinating and things like that.
So, you know, what's the most important thing in the world? It's time.
And it's fascinating when you've got young kids, and I looked at this in a certain way. I've probably said this before on the podcast, but you think that time with the kids is going to be there forever, but having gone through that entire process and people say it, it's like a cliche, I'll go as quick, they grow up fast, all that sort of stuff.
But it's really true. And it's not until you go through and you appreciate it along the way that that is true, right? But in the hustle and bustle of it all, sometimes, and especially when they get older, a little bit older, you know, like, kids and then teenagers, that's a nightmare, et cetera. you can forget how quickly it does go.
And once it's gone, it is gone. that time I used to look at it as zero to five. as a bracket, because we had four, we had four, five and under. So they used to go in my head, that bracket of that, and then they were ten, five to ten year olds, they went to ten to fifteen, and then fifteen and twenty, and then suddenly it's gone.
So it's sort of like four, I had it into four sections, if you like, that's how I looked at it. And each of those different phases was a very different phase. and just, you know, relating back to your time analogy, breaking up that way made me realize how quickly those, my wife hated me making those comparisons, because I'd be like, well, they're now this old, they're now 10, we're out of that kid phase, and she hated it because, you know.
Suddenly she realized that was gone. But for me, it was helpful because it made me like you looking at the watch. It was helpful because it made me remember how quickly that stuff goes and to prioritize it because once it's gone, it's gone.
And very, very, important. I think like if you leave someone with one bit of advice is time is your single most precious commodity
Yeah, totally agree with that.
and, always think about it. And, and I don't have to be in the office to do work, but I can take an hour out. I don't have to start at nine. I can start at 10. Do I do my work?
Yes. Do I do over my work? Yes. But do I get to enjoy my kids? Absolutely. And that's one of the things that there's no point having everything. If you don't enjoy what you do or you miss those times, and that's something that I'm really proud and happy about that I've made that decision, got that advice and said, no, I'm going to make time for my family, for my kids.
and, you know, Sophie and I have a policy that, whoever goes to bed first, when the other person comes, then the phones go off. So for an hour, there's no phones, and sitting there chatting to your best friend every night. And there's no e com Thomas could e commerce talk after nine during Friday, but they're the moments in life that you never get back.
And having a really good balance of that is important.
Greg's Favourite Part of Step One
What do you love most about what you do in your business, Greg? What comes to mind?
It's not work. I love what I do. I don't ever think of coming to work. I think of coming to build something.
I think coming to, and we've done things where we, we started working with community projects. So Surf Lifesaving Australia,
Okay.
they came to us, Greg, everyone uses step one, square the discount code.
Because of the, the surf, the sand, the salt, the sweat, we have a discount code. And I said, I mean, you guys do God's work. So I came up with an idea and said, why don't we make a pair of step ones? We'll donate five bucks of the profit to it. We raised a quarter of a million dollars for them. I
Yeah. Okay.
And that I think now they're going to use that to cover drone put drones on beaches, which will help save X number of lives and things like that. Last week I presented my second ever giant novelty check to step timber. So, cerebral palsy. So we need a pair of step timber. underwear, 5 per pair, we do that at, you know, we bear the cost and the risk on it.
and we raised, we're the second highest fundraiser for them at a 125, 000, um, to help cerebral pausing, and develop it and, and, and find solutions for it. Um, because once it's there, it's, it's difficult. So, you know, things I learned out of that and we're doing something with police legacy now, whereby, I've got an email from one of the officers that survived one, you know, the, there's some, shooting up in Queensland in Chinchilla until the officers died and hit Randall was one of the officers that survived.
And he sent me an email. I've got an email saying, you know, dear step one. I was one of the officers involved with this and he actually sent a photo of the, he's got the underwear he was wearing and it's got a hole in the leg
and he's framed and he's called them the lucky pinks. And all he said was, just wondering if you've got any more
That's awesome.
more pink.
That's, awesome.
And then he told me about police legacy and what it does. So if an officer is killed or injured in the line of duty, it will then pay, pay away, pay the kid's school fees, pay the house off, give the widow, age. I was like, this is, this is incredible. So I went to all the states. legacies. and we're now making individual state pairs to raise money for police legacy for a cause like that.
So being able to like tie the business into, a community aspect and doing good for the community and giving back is something that's really important to me. And if we can do business as usual, but add this on top, ticks all the boxes in terms of having a great product, a great business where the first, underwear company in Australia, the UK to have an end-to-end FSE certification.
So everyone from where the bamboo comes outta the ground to the end supplier, no child labor, no forced labor, there's around 50 sub-suppliers between the forest and the
factory. And so that took us three years to get, I didn't know the value of it, but when we went to Surf Lifesaving were saying, you know, they wanna know that, you know who's making them.
'cause imagine a child.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I gave them this certificate and they said, Oh, you've got FSC. And they wanted to know our whole supply chain. And they're like, wow. And so I didn't realize that there'd be a commercial side out of it. I did it for the reason I didn't, I'd seen child labor. I'd been to the factories, I'd seen forced labor, I'd seen sweatshops.
So I did it because I wanted to make, be not only make a great product, but be proud of it. I didn't think that there could be a commercial side of it. and something truly proud of. And if you look through the site, there's quite a bit around the ethical part of the journey and how we've got there.
The Future of Step One and Greg Taylor's Ten Year Plan
That's awesome. What's next for step one in the future? And when I say what's next, you know, not just next year, but what's your, your grand plans in terms of, you know, five, 10 years, where do you see this all going?
Someone asked me the other day, I mean, obviously we're focused on growth. not just here in Australia, but in international markets. So yeah, that's, and we grew 30 percent in the UK last, last year. There's a huge opportunity there. but someone asked me this and I think it's a, it's a good point to finish on.
And it was, they said to me.
what do you want out of this? Like, what's your end game? And I thought about, Yeah.
I'd love to leave a legacy whereby my kids. So Hugo and Ivy, and I'm hoping we stop at two. My wife will be the decision maker on that, but wouldn't it be cool if my kids as kids and my grandkids, even my kids grow up, we all grew up wearing a certain brand. Wouldn't it be cool if like all the kids grew up wearing Step Ones, you leave that legacy that like my granddad started that or, you know, and it's an ethical, sustainable product. And I think, you know, if we can make underwear as a basic human right, and yeah, something that we should all have.
so that's why we make it a brand for everyone. That's why we use Step Ones. people of all shapes and sizes, because it's underwear for everyone. and that's, you know, I think if I could leave a legacy where kids grow up wearing step ones, you know, made from made sustainably ethically.
and we've had that impact. I think that'd be really cool.
Greg, that's an awesome story and it's been really fascinating hearing about your journey and step one. And I really can't wait to find out how it all plays out in the future. Really looking forward to watching.
Yeah. No, I really appreciate that. And thanks. And again, congrats on, on all the people you've had on and I love listening to them. And, you know, hopefully if, as I always say, if, if one bit of advice helps one person, then, then it's worth it.
Yeah. Mate, there's many, many more pieces than one and piece of advice out of all of that. That was really great, mate. Thank you very much.
Outtro
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